goldfish parameters

   Am really quite fed up with how many goldfish have died the goldfish never stick around for long in our tank.

  The nitrates are low and ammonia there isnt any real plants in there, just filters and ornaments.

 Have more then enough filters to turn the water around so its not an oxygen issue.

  In order to get a lovely tank with at least three goldfish living happily in there what should be checking for if the nitrates are low and the ammonia low aswell. 

  The ph is high does that matter?  8 +

 The water think is hard here.

   Not sure if what the potassium sorry for spelling is is that important.

  Buy a group of them they will all die apart from one every time why is this? 

   Mostly orandas buy nothing to fancy comets etc.

A large hong kong plec is in there but he dont bother them.

  Also feed them flakes make they are getting to much air in their bladders swimming up and glupping it down.

  Its roughly a 60 litre tank.

 Don't know much about goldfish but I do know they need about 8 gallons a fish because they are very messy. 60 litres is 12 gallon - thats one and a half fish!

My belief is goldfish belong in ponds!

 would second that!

shubumkins are a much better option, i believe fully grown at 4" so you could get 3 or 4 in there?

With a 60L tank, you're best off sticking to fancies, shubs can get just as big as comets and commons, so they're really pond fish.

Can you give us some more information about your tank, how long it's been set up? What your water change regime is like? How you clean your filters?

Fish wise, i think you'd be ok with maybe one fancy fish, and a few white clouds. :)

My pond shubs are 6" and still growing, they're just a colour variant of common/comet type fish and as Nic says they can grow just as big.

I'd be wary of making a generalisation by saying that goldfish aren't really suitable for tanks, let's face it, it depends on the size of the tank. The other side of the coin is my sister has goldfish in a garden puddle which is probably a smaller volume than my 3 foot tank.

I'd agree with Nic's stocking suggestion in this case, one fancy and a handful of minnows, alternatively expand your options and go tropical.

But all this is skirting the issue of why your goldfish keep dying in the first place, that was your original question. You say the ammonia level is "low", what is the actual reading? It should be zero, if you are getting a reading at all this indicates a problem.

If you're buying 3 fish at a time possibly you're overloading the filters since there won't be much bacteria if there's only one small fish in there already, this could lead to ammonia spiking. Better to add one fish at a time, a week or 2 apart.

 What's all this goldfish in a pond only?! Doesn't it really depend on what home you give them? I may have had a few issues earlier this year when they moved home but other from this mine have been ok. I've lost a few over the years but I have a 10 year old and most of the rest are between 5 and 7 years old. I check my levels, don't overfeed and maintain my filter.

Goldfish should not outgrow thier home. All fish give out theramones. The more theramones in the water the less they grow. When you remove too much water too frequently you risk the fish growing too large for the tank. When the theramones are removed it signals to the fish that there is room to grow when in fact there isn't. My larger fish are about 6in, the rest about 4. I don't expect the 6 inchers to grow much bigger. Maybe a little as I've tripled the water volume to what they had. 

Back to the point of dying goldfish. Such a shame. I agree you need to get your levels to zero 1st before adding more. If this isn't right and then the stress of the move it's prob just too much for them. goldfish are generally 7ph up to 8.5ph but if the shop level was say only 7 and you popped them in your tank too quickly without taking the time to add a little at a time they may have suffered ph shock.

Good luck sorting things out as Goldfish are brill !!! 

 Do you mean pheromones parsley?

Pheromones are secreted to attract others of the same species. Nothing to do with growth

I know what you are trying to say . But stunted growth occurs in small tanks. It isn't that they have grown only to the size of the tank. Stunted growth  could mean the fish isn't as healthy and happy as it should be. In which case the lifespan will be shortened.

I am not saying this is the case with yours as I don't know the size of your tank and you say they are long lived and healthy

Your right Parsley re. Goldfish only in ponds. As long as the volume of tank is enough for the fish and tank parameters are good then there is no reason why you can't keep them in doors.

I wouldn't do it as I think they are just too mucky and grow to big for anything but really big tanks. It's all about opinion and thats just mine - doesn't mean it's right!

As to the pheromone argument - I completely disagree about that, fish growing to the size of tank is rubbish (again in my opinion). Stunted growth in small tanks is hardly fair on the fish and can lead to shorter lifespan and health problems etc obviously there are always exceptions - goldfish have been kept in grossly undersized bowls with no filter and lived for years! The vast majority of fish kept like this don't last as long as they should though.

completelly agree with alll you have said Dave.

And as I said, pheromones have a different function altogether 

 Would never keep a fish in a bowl. Think they should be banned! My single tails are in a 280lit tank. Can't go any bigger so hopefully they don't grow any bigger! The smallest is a lemon who is prob around 3-4 in. body length. He's about 6 years old now. I've never seen a large lemon anywhere. Funny how some grow larger than others when they started at the same size.