Anyone into Goldfish? Help!

Sorry, couldn't see a seperate forum for coldwater. I'm just looking for some general helpful tips to help keep my (8) gorgeous goldfish happy and healthy. They used to live in a 119lit tank. Although the odd mild tail rot issue and the odd velevet they were generally healthy. They moved home into a 280lit tank just before Christmas. This was filtered by a fluval external 405 and I have 2 air stones for extra oxygen/water movement. The pants are fake, have had a few reall ones from time to time but some of these goldfish are big chaps and found it better with the fake. I also read somewhere that a UV steriliser is a good idea so I also installed one of these. I've had nothing but problems. The filter was running in the old tank for 4 months prior and I usedpratically all the water from it to help fill the new one so 'new tank syndrome shouldn't have really affected it. Needeless to say after a week or so a few started to get raggy tail fins. To cut a long story short, the Uv has been switched on and off like a yo yo and I've been treating for finrot and velevet. (not at same time) I didn't have these issues before the UV so I dismantled it. Are they any good or not. It's meant to be for ponds also and says 'freshwater' Certainly didn't do my fish any good. I lost 3. Sadly one I'd had for 6 years since it was tiny and she was a stunner. All three were female which leaves one to cope with the attentions of the males. A shop said plenty of salt but I'm reluctant to go over the stated recommended dose that on the carton for goldfish.

I've tested my water and the ammonia and nitrite is way low and the nitrate is at a low acceptable level. I will just be finishing a 2nd week course of myaxin and plan to do a good clean on Friday. Is taking the water level to half too much or a good idea? I really love my fish and don't want to loose any more. Any good knowledgable advise helpful.

How come people that neglect their goldfish ends up living forever and doesn't get ill and folk that want to do the best have problems?

 Hi Parsley, I moved it to the coldwater section for you.
As for your on going problems this is always a nightmare when they start.

Firstly whats the exact reading for ammonia and nitrites?

As you know gold fish are nice little chaps but once they get a problem they tend to be prone to problems once they start.

I would be inclined to do several water changes over the next 2 weeks, doing at least 20% of the water each time. This will help get the ammonia down and remove any trace chemicals left from treatments.

You have done pritty must as much as u could of buy maturing the filter and using old water, did u use the gravel and decor as well?
These all have good bacteria as well that would of helped, but surly by now they would of recovered. Still go light on the treatments as possible your trying to much and  do the water changes. 

U.V. These are mainly used in ponds to kill the green water and in a indoor tank you should not have this problem, they also kill most bacteria in the water as well, but this is not a problem again in a fish tank. The U.V. though will do no harm to the fish, the only way it would is if they had it all their life and had never seen and desieases, then u remove it and desieases are then introduced, this would hit them hard. 

 As for neglected goldfish...... well it's survival of the fittest, the hardiest fish will survive and will almost take anything thrown at it.

If you have any ammonia or nitrite readings then you need to change water on a regular basis until the filter builds up enough bacteria to cope with the bioload.

Goldfish have very heavy bioloads as they eat constantly, and adding salt certainly wont make things any better is the water quality is not good.  Goldfish are very hard work and i take my hat off to you as your not doing too bad considering. You are also on the verge of overstocking your tank, i think it works out at 7 point something as the number of goldfish you can have and you have 8 which with a good filter and regular water changes should be fine. I dont know if you have a local store that stocks live food, its def a dietry requirement esp live daphnia to prevent constipation which is the main cause of swimbladder infections. Crushed peas if another good one if not and should be fed weekly. As for the amount of water to change, be careful not to do too much as once, i would recommend several smaller water changes rather that the big one you said. Say 25% everyother day instead of 50% all at once. I know its hard work i used to do daily water changes with mine. Good luck, not sure if ive answered all your questions and i suspect you may have more so see if that makes any sense and dont worry about asking for more help. Im sure others will have some advise too, I think me and alan said near enough the same thing cept im not sure about the uv, i think they are overkill for tanks but dont know much about them. di

Thanks folks. Once I give them a clean I will do another ammonia check and let you know the levels. Yes I know my inches of fish is more or less maximum. I know a few will prob still grow a little. They were very happy campers before so hoping I will reach this again. I change my ammonia monthly (like it says on the box) and recharge it. Periodically I buy new stuff again. I recharge it in a very strong solution of aquarium salt and water (from the tank). Doesn't actually say on the box the quantity per lit. Any of you guys know what it should be? I also use Bio max and of course charcoal. Before all this I did a quicky gravel clean (not moving stuff) one week then a proper clean the following week. I was hoping the do the same with this tank but at fortnightly intervals, when everyone is happy and healthy. Would this be acceptable for size of tank?

I feed them peas, floating pellets, frozen foods and freeze dried foods. I will admit to previously giving into begging cause they just looked so cute but this was before they moved into this tank and I have trained myself not to be a soft touch. I feed them in the morning before I go to work and once in the evening when I get home. They are greedy and I don't like them to eat too much all at once so this is the reason for the two meals. They are used to it now and have stopped the frantic begging antics.

I have heard goldfish can be harder then tropical. No kidding !!!  Wouldn't part with them for the world though. Cheers for the help.    

 I'd take both the zeolite (ammonia remover) and carbon out, as they really aren't needed in a set up, unless there's problems with it. In the spaces where the carbon ans zeolite where, i suggest you have compartment of bio media, and one of floss to polish the water. By still having the carbon in there whlst you're treating, you're just taking the med out as quickly as you're putting it in. It's also though that the carbon can remove trace minerals and elements from the water that the fish need in small amounts, and so they become deficiant of them, which leads to the fish becoming just a bit "off" and there's nothing to put your finger on to as why.  The velvet has to photosynthesise to live, so the next time it crops up, use black bags to black out the tank. I'd also suggest running a constant low level of salt in the system, say 1 gram per litre to keep the pesky fin rot away. If the tank is very cold, it may also be worth investing in a heater to keep it about 20 deg C.

Totaly agree with Nic about everything, zeolite and active barbon is fine if you have a problem, but it's removing food for the good bacteria needed to clean the water for you. As well as removing medications...

I don't have the carbon in the filter during treatment. Cleaned them out on Friday. Haven't tested for nitrite yet as have run out. However, ammonia level is 0mg/lit so nitrite will prob be ok anyway. Nitrate is 10mg/lit which I understand to be within acceptable levels. PH is 7.5 and I tend to keep it at this level. Haven't really seen any other test equipment in the shops. Is ther other componants in the water that could have this affect? I do treat the water obviously. Strange thing is my small tank of double tailed shibunkins, telescope, oranda, black moor are absolutely fine. I've had this lot for a year and they are never up nor down. Don't do anything different and clean them out on the same days. My other tank of platy and a fighter are also happy campers. I've noticed my algea has settled down and isn't such a nightmare. Maybe it has been going through 'new tank syndrome'. I added some filter bacteria also on Friday just to help things along. I'm not happy enough with the progress to stop treatment so will continue for another week and see how things are. Not all the fish are affected. Just seems to be the chaps with the extra long fins. Will post some pics shortly.  

I don't have the carbon in when treating it. I know it just removes it. That's a handy tip where velevet is concerned. How long would I need to black out the tank? Cleaned them out on Friday. Ammonia is 0mg/lit. Nitrate is 10mg/lit which is an acceptable level. Ran out of nitrite test but as the other levels are ok I expect this will be to. PH is 7.5 and I tend to keep it this level. Have added salt, dose stated on carton and the temp is at 21 to 22. Doesn't really falter from this. Haven't seen any other test kits for other toxins. Is there anything else? Strange this is my small tank of double tails is absolutely fine. Had them a year now and they are never up nor down. Small tank of platy and fighter are also happy campers. Clean them out on the same days and don't do anything different. Really think this just stems to them being moved. Not happy yet with the progress so will treat for another week and review. Not all are affected, just seems to be the chaps with the extra long fins.    

One more thing. Does anyone know the cause of fin flicking? Not actual flicking off objects and glass etc but just twitching of the fins. Have noticed this a couple of times, almost like they've got an itch. Not all are doing this. cheers

 Is there any where close to you who will do a skin scrape for you?

I wouldn't think so. I was intending to black out the tank today but still don't know how long for. Just in case it's velvet related.

They appear to be improving where the tattie fins are concerned which is a good sign. Don't want to treat again with something else for this other thing going on if I can help it.

cheers  

 Usually good pond shops will do scrapes for you, it may be worth phoning up and asking. As for the fin flicking, it's usually caused by some kind of irritation, not all paracites cause visible symptoms, just a general lethargy and exess mucous. Velvet's generally an easy disease to identify as it's quite large. I really do reccomend a low, constant level of salt in the water, even a gram per litre will help.

Hi Cheers. You know I said Velvet but that's cause I was thinking of the interpet treatment that covers velevet and slime. It's the grey patches I've had in the past. Bought some more Nitrite test and redone the other 2. All is spot on. Ammonia is 0 Nitrite is 0 and Nitrate is 10. Fins aren't flicking as much but feel I need to get rid of whatever it is. Checked my waterlife chart and plan to do a course of Protozin and then a course of Sterazin. This will cover all stages of life cycle. The chart says both treatment for signs of flicking or general skin irratations. Haven't used before as Interspet Velevt and Slime you use far less and I'm treating a 280lit tank! However, needs must and obviously haven't had success with Interpet. Waterlife isn't harmful to the filtration so probably best. The fins are looking much better and I feel after this treatment I should see an improvement. Obviously the skin irratation is what's at the bottom of the frayed and split fins. They say the fins are the first to suggest a problem where goldfish are concerned. Thanks for the help and will let you know how things go in due course.