Dogs.......

Hi All,

As some of you may know i have two cocker spaniel boys, called Alfie and Frank. Alfie is 2years old and Frank is 1year old.

Unfourtunately in the last few days they have become particularly violent towards one another, with my partner in tears everytime and also got hurt on one occasion. It really is a nasty thing when it happens and luckily being 6' and 18stone i am able to pretty much pull them off each other but she cannot. Anyway with us all set for the Grand Design show in London today and tickets bought and paid for we decided to order ourselves a curry last night and get an early night! Then they started! to the point where we couldn't have them in the same room! we seperated them and i called the only person i knew might be able to help who was Graham at Bomaris Kennels (www.bomaris.co.uk) who looks after the boys when we go away. He was brilliant and told me to bring Frank (the instigator) round straight away (this was 9:20pm, saturday night) and he would look after him until we knew what to do.

I think we are going to get them both Castrated to try and holt the testosterone levels and pray it calms things down a bit. If not it will be a case of rehoming one of them which would break our hearts but i am also a keen animal lover and would always put the well being of my animals before my own well being.

We are taking Alfie over to the kennels tomorrow to spend some time with his brother and to assess the situation but may well end up leaving Frank in the kennels until it is possible to get the ops done.

Has anyone got any experience of this? Any advice would be very much greatly recieved, i know this is a fish forum but you never know.....

Also any experiences of the snip!

Thanks

Matt

Yes, i do have experiance in this, as two of my dogs fight in the same way. What I will say is that I don't think that neutering works, we did the same thing when my two started, and they'd still do it now, if they got the chance. I think it's got something to do with the younger one reaching sexual maturity, and the older one feeling his dominant postion in the pack has been threatened. Because of this, you've got to remove any issue of dominance with both of them, by you becoming the pack leader. It may all seem like a big pile of mombo-jumbo, but it really does work. If I where you, I'd have a look to see if there is a "dog whisperer" or dog phsycologist in your area, it will probibly be very different to the type of training you're used to, but I do very strongly beleive that it works.

Matt,

I agree with Nic - the snip won't work in this case

It's all about "knowing/testing" their boundaries.

As you are well aware, the cocker is a live-wire, having two is double the "fun" but it means you (& partner) must be Alpha (& Beta) dogs AT ALL TIMES.

If you can make the time to set/reinforce the "pack rules" fair enough and remember, these breeds need lots of exercise (at least 2 *1 hour stints per day) and plenty of mental stimulation (during the day only) to stop any destructive behaviour in the house/car etc.

I say "during the day" as they need a regime which differentiates between daytime/nightime and makes them think "okay, it must be nearly bedtime cos they are doing x,y,z".

You have to reward good behaviour (with praise - not necessarily with treats) and dissuade the bad by associating it with a "consequence" such as a spray of water or a noisy rattle. 

It may sound daft, but if you can give it time & energy, you may be able to turn things around; the hardest thing would be to rehome one of them - but you must consider what is best for everyone concerned.

Best wishes

Mike

I'm with Mike on this too.. Dogs need consistancy and rules and boundries in their life. If you don't have the time to take your dogs our for two 1 hour walks, then I suggest that you buy a cheap treadmill and train them to use that. I also strongly suggest that you read Ceasar Milan's books, he has received some bad press from dog training "purists" but I do beleive his methods work, and if you have a good think about it, what he says makes sense.

Yea caesars that guy i told you about ages ago, he really does know his dogs, and has the reputation of putting the dogs needs first and blow what the owners think, if you watch him with a pack of mixed dogs you can see he is the leader.  I was thinking when we were chatting that now the dogs have learnt to fight its not that easy to stop them, after all nothing will have changed as far as who is top dog is concerned, i mean we had harly done, but purely for the reason that it was what was best for him, like you i want my dog to be healthy and happy.

Like i said i would consult a vet and if he is worth his salt they wont recommend the operation if its doesnt solve the problem. Id also in the meantime ask if they know a pet behaviourist they can recommend and  its prob you that needs the training though. di

 I Suppose their training uses operant conditioning methods

Thanks for you replays guys, my dogs get plenty of exercise and come to work with me every day also so have a very cushy life to be honest.

Funny enough prior to reading this thread i saw the ceaser book in tescos and bought it lol! freaky!

Just picked frank up and took them for a long walk to try and loose some of there energy for the evening, now got the french doors open and they are casually relaxing in the sun and nice weather.

After speaking to 2 behaviourist and my kennel owner who is also a trainer of gun dogs i have come to the conclusion that the castration will not be a miricle cure but will definately take the edge off and calm things down alot. As well as being good for the dogs in other areas. They are booked in on Wednesday so will be done sooner rather then later.

Have also got a behaviourist coming to see me next week for a couple of hours to offer us some guidance and support.

Have also found a good training club which sound very patient and relaxed so will be starting that up. All in all i have put in place things which i think will get us on the rd to being a happy 2 dog house!

Thanks

Matt

Off the top of my head I would suggest that its a case of they need boundaries and that you two humans might not be being seen as the leaders of the pack. That said it could just be a case of 'personal' dislikes of one dog for the other and that may be harder to cure. My parent's have only ever had male dogs, shetlands and alsations, and as far as we knew there was never a real fight between them, there were play fights and rough and tumbles. This included a pup being introduced were there were already adult dogs present. 

I am uncertain over the benifits of the snip once a dog has passed puberty, ours were all intact.

I can't really help apart from say neutering didnt work for my sis's dogs.

Sometimes they could be nice

And other times a right PITA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Got my hand bit a few times trying to break them apart Not the fault though.

However they both lived happy until about 14yr old

I really hope you can find a solution to keep them both mate

 Holly says behave

Very good.

Well the boys went in yesterday for there op. All went well. ALfie also had xrays on his legs as he limps a fair amount. Unfourtunately he has Hip Dysplasia in both hips. Not news i wanted to hear, in fact i am extremely upset.

Basically he has to be treated medically or have a big operation. At a cost of over £4k.

Matt

 Oh Matt I am so sorry to hear that

It's so upsetting when animals have health problems. I can empathise with you

One of my friend's cats fell down the stairs and fractured a leg a few months ago. Her cats fight all the time and they are sisters aged 18 years. Made a remarkable recovery after hours of surgery. The leg is pinned and was attached to a frame on the outside for about 6 weeks. Even the vets were amazed how she recovered so well.

 sorry to hear your news my dog holly is 9 and has several lumps(fatty tissue),one on her side that just keeps growing,they cant remove has the wound might cause more problems so I know how you feel.

 Sorry to hear about Alfie mate, hopefully things will come good.

Hope you get a good result for your 2 dogs behaviour too.................oh and don't blame Frank.

FD

Frank??? Does the name spell trouble??? 

Not good news for Alfie - so young too

Best wishes to one & all

Mike